I this the year of the mailers?

[Uwe Falkenberg]

...I know, I know, there are safelists, viral mailers etc. but lets look at it as a type of marketing that sends messages.

 

I heard people saying that 2013 will be the year of the mailers. It seems there is hardly any traffic exchange without an own mailer. You get lifetime super JV for 5$!

 

I think this will be a very difficult year for mailers, especially when they have less than 5000 members. Why should I waste my time and even promote these mailers.

 

What do you think? Is Marketing Checkpoint the right answer to the development?

 

Would love to hear your opinion.

 

Uwe

[Darren Olander]

I think there is room for a lot of mailers in our industry.. the thing is.. it's not wise for someone to use just one, it's best if you're using a lot of them because then you have more and more ads and reach out there.

[Uwe Falkenberg]

Where do you see the critical size in the numbers game of sending - opening - actually reading - clicking - from here it is up to the landing page of course.

[Darren Olander]

I've seen people get really good results from even mailers with very small memberships. I think the important factor is freshness. How many fresh members are on that list? Or active members on that list... but judging by new members is easier. If a list only has a few hundred but they all recently joined because it's brand new, the click rates and results will still be very high... then in the future it will be up to the owner to keep them active and continue to bring in new users.

[Kenny Kolijn]

Hi Uwe, there are definitely more and more mailers coming, but I don't think there's saturation yet. People will join as much mailers as they can manage and keep trying new ones to expand their reach.

 

For me, the amount of members isn't the most important factor to decide whether or not to promote a particular site. Bigger isn't always better. I prefer sites where members are encouraged to be active with some sort of activity rewards or loyalty bonuses.

 

I also think that some upgrade formulas can be counterproductive in the long run, especially if too many members get a boatload of free credits and don't really "need" to read a single email. Getting fresh new members on a site regularly, if possible every single day, is also important.

 

I love mailers and constantly test new ones and track my results. This year has definitely been an interesting year so far

[Kimberly Rutherford]

I think the constant barrage of new mailers is a good thing. We all enjoy the CTRs when they're new and fresh, and then the cream rises to the top, and the rest fade away.

 

It becomes clear pretty quickly which are "keepers" and which aren't. The difference? I agree with Darren: the owner. It takes an appropriate incentive to keep people opening mails (if I get 10,000 credits to read one mail, how many do you think I'm going to read?) as well as innovations: contests, "fun stuff" to keep members active.

 

I even appreciate the recent wave of affordable lifetime memberships - people are more apt to return to a mailer they've invested in, and dropping prices helps more of us make that investment. I welcome every new mailer with open arms and an open mind )

[gnana]

LFMVM Script made it easy for anyone to own a mailer. So you can expect more mailers to be coming. Most of the mailers with around 1000 members has got me better CTR than some of the old ones with 5k+ members. New ones always delivers higher CTR! Not using them will cost you sign ups. Some owners sell the upgrades for very cheap price. But they do it initially to grow the site. I took the 20 buck upgrade at Instabucksmailz. It may be cheaper. But the site has grown and getting me sign ups.

When you are promoting a mailer, you have to consider few things like site owner, site design, membership cost, etc. It is always good to promote the very good new mailer than the old one. Because you can build more downlines in less time.

[Sean Supplee]

I have noticed a lot of people get hung up on the numbers, Well the wrong numbers at least. There are some mailers out there with 20k - 60k people I can email but when it comes to it I maybe get 50 clicks on my ads. While others have 1k members but I get 150 clicks. Why waste so many credits emailing dead inactive accounts. The only numbers anyone should be worried about is how many clicks they are getting on their ads and not about how many people they can actually mail.

[Uwe Falkenberg]

@Sean

I basically agree, but the clicks can be incentivized by the setup of the mailer. What I am looking for are conversions, for clicks I use a traffic exchange - every credit a click.

[Jackie O]

It's true there has been a rush of new mailers popping up everyday.

But like some of the others said, don't worry about the amount of members they have...it comes down to ownership and what the owners are doing to encourage open rates.

Like Gnana, I have gotten conversions from very small ones....and some of them perform much better than the ones with a large membership.

 

 

[Marcy McManaway]

I have gotten quite a few sign-ups from mailers with small numbers of members... I agree, I believe it's because they are new and activity is high at that time.

[Paul Johnson]

I get sign-ups regularly from mailers, I love them, I consider the response rate to be quite respectable for my time. To be honest, I prefer mailers over traffic exchanges, the amount of time spent on te's and the results ratio is seriously no where as good as time spent on mailers and the results ratio, so again, I really love mailers and use them, many of them, everyday.

[Steve Shapiro]

The industry is always in need of new mailers, The older mailers become less and less effective, as members use up their free advertising and then go elsewhere to find more free advertising. You've got to remember that credit based mailers are generally not very effective, since members don't really read the emails for the most part. They're just clicking for the credits. If you have a good website that interests them, you'll get some signups, but mostly free signups. The upgrade rate is generally terrible on these mailers.

 

While more members doesn't always mean a better response, size "does" matter. Why bother with a new site that has 200 or 300 members unless you know that its run by someone that is actively building the site and attracting new members. If you're looking at the traditional click thru rates its really not worth the time to get 10 clicks or less on these sites. I personally won't mail on a site with less than 1000 members. There's no way to tell how many "active" members that a site has, but its probably a safe assumption to say that the newer the site, the higher the percentage of active members as opposed to inactive. I mean...what good does it do to mail to 20,000 if only a handful of them will ever see it?

[gnana]

@Sean: Absolutely! FugitiveTrafficMailer is delivering me 150+ clicks with 15% CTR. I also know couple of other mailers delivering only 50 odd clicks but they have 40k+ members.

 

@Uwe: Some mailers gives 100% refund Guarantee. But I don't think any mailer actually guarantees conversions including bigger ones. All we have to do is test and track our ads to know where sign ups and sales really comes from.

[Stefan Berg]

The Only Thing That Matters Is Results

 

It's easy if you get 1 hit, 1000 hits or you can email 1000 ppl or 100 000 ppl do not matter... Results Folks, Is What Matters!

 

A small list that doesn't grow bigger can't deliver Gr8 results in the longrun, No matter how many clicks you get or how high CTR% You Have... Same goes for the ones that already been growing quite Big... The Key to Success for a mailer and to be able to Deliver Results month after month, year after year Is always adding New Active Members & quite a few is needed / day. You also have to inspire the old members to stay active, use the service and help the owner to build the site. (Owners... Don't be to greedy and Pay out very low % commission... A worker is worth his money lol)

 

ALL In ALL, I Don't Care how High or Low the CTR is or how many clicks I get... I Track Results ONLY How many sign ups, how many that upgrades etc etc from different Mailers...

 

One Thing many Forget, If the Owner is a Gr8 Marketer and Know How to sell. He will attract more buyers and more buyer means.... Yes Results In form of sign ups and later sale... Track What Matters... Don't go By Numbers That Don't!

 

If You first start out, Use different ranking sites as a Guide befor you have your own tracking up and running. Network with Owners and serious Members and compare your Results and sooner then you think You'll know what Mailers that works better and the ones that not work as good in the longrun read years...

[Stefan Berg]

To Answer The Question... It Never Too Many Mailers and It seems that the competition don't get harder when new Launches... And For Myself The Money Generated By Using Them Only goes up and Up and we in TheLeadMagnet sell more and more... (New Record again in May)

 

So Yes It's The Year of the Mailers... More Mailers is Good... Creates a Larger Community, niche... But If you're think of Launching one yourself. Do your homework, since it takes a lot of work to break through especially if it's your first Launch!

[AnnaLoredana]

I personally don't like big safelists and I don't believe in big numbers, very hardly credible! It's enough we have a saw at our personal lists, and we will be able to

verify how many are the active prospects, the ones we can rely on, a great minority. The same is true for our sites whatever they are. I agree with Stefan that the human factor is very important. For instance, the real point of force in the ownership of his site is Catarina and their cat. A joke, he is really fine and deserves his success. Let's talk of mailers in general. Small new ones at the beginning give very good results. With the increase in the no. of members their rate of conversion decreases. After six months, results are absoltely the same with the inconvenience of

a smaller audience. As to the relationship with TE's I believe that what is happening is a conversion of TE's to mailers. Surfing was totally impersonal. Then some sites have added a chat. We need to socialize. This need to speak with persons you do not

know is not satisfied by our social networks, mailing, the most colloquial possible, is the perfect answer. I think this migration from TE's to mailing sites will be

positive. The year of mailers, of course.

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Koshko]

Very interesting discussion. I began reading without realizing how many replies there were here.

 

All I'm going to say is that I firmly believe in innovation. Can mailers continue to flourish? I'd say yes, BUT they can't be the same mailer that everyone uses. We MUST attract new eyes, not just the same people using the same 100+ mailers.

[Maria McCarthy]

I agree with Anna! I don't wait for the membership levels to get high. If I see lots of people promoting a site, lots of ads out for a site...and the membership number is low... I still sign up & advertise there & usually with better/equal results than from the huge, dormant safelists. Not only that, but if you also look at a safelist from an income stream standpoint & not just advertising... You want to become a member of a list that is obviously going to be popular so that you can get those sign-ups under you before everyone else!

[Klaus Biesel]

I do agree a lot with Gnana, i have better results with new but fast growing TAE Mailers or Safelists however you call them, as i have with most of the bigger ones. From my perspective the industry needs to find ways to find NEW fresh Leads as more Mailers are coming up as more we are fishing in the same pond of members. Would be interesting to discuss the best way to accomplish this, while using marketingcheckpoint as tool.

 

hmmm.... hope my english was clear enough

[Frank Bauer]

One important thing to keep in mind is that the number of clicks you get with any mailer are a lot less important then the number of conversions (signups or sales) you get with them.

 

A lot of mailers that give you a high number of clicks are incentiviced mailers and the majority of people just click to earn credits are not interested in what you are offering.

 

At ViralURL.com & ViralHosts.com we don't inventivice clicks to give you a true way to e.g. test mailings before you use them for paid solo ad mailings.

 

Colin made a video where he actually tested the conversions rates with several mailers...

 

What other mailers do you know that don't inventivice clicks?

[Sean Supplee]

Think is every mailer has some incentive be it to click to get credits or not lol. But yes the ones the offer cash often bump up clicks but again for me at least draw in the wrong crowd of customers who are looking for their next quick buck instead of buckling down and doing things right.

 

You can buy solo ads from other marketers some offer it and you can expect a 30%-50% conversion rate on these ads. However the costs are very high so unless you got a solid offer I don't recommend it to people starting out.

[AnnaLoredana]

Frank Bauer video is very interesting, as a matter of fact it denies all results from

more or less official ranking lists. I am in perfect agreement. In practice he states

that whatever you write, whatever your splagepage, readers or non-readers go after credits. And if all mailers, safelists or listbuilders, sent emails without credits, what will happen? Credits equal profits? I don't think so. Let's do an example. If I'm a free member I can send mails every seven days to 500 members, no credit involved. If I upgrade I will have a better capacity of mailing according to the type of upgrade. Again I don't need credits. The topic turns into a problem if I upgrade and even if mailing to a greater number of members I don't get any result. Now, if I need prospects I'm obliged to have recourse to safe swaps or solo ads, etc., to buy my credits knowing per sure that I will get a guaranteed positive results. That's why we quote at 5$ the price or return from a prospect. Then upgrading is convenient or not? And why most mailers presently offer very cheap lifetime upgraded memberships?

I would like to come back to Viralurl video to make a real example supporting their theory: FastCashAndTraffic, John Bell, both mailer and TE, does not allow mailing for free, and their emails bear from 1 to 3 credits max. They offer however a minimum fee for mailing -3-4$/m. At this level mailing is reduced and credits very low. They present a high conversion rate, which is real in term of signups.

What the right policies to adopt? How to get out of the pond and get a fishing licence for the infinite internet market outside the pond?

[Jackie O]

 

 

We MUST attract new eyes, not just the same people using the same 100+ mailers.

 

I heartily agree....this is the same problem plaguing TEs now.

 

A good owner will go OUTSIDE of mailers & TEs to bring in fresh eyes.

[Uwe Falkenberg]

The weekend is almost over, at least where I am. I think this was a great discussion with interesting insights so far, thank you vers much for shaing your thoughts. It really put some question marks behind the much quoted "numbers game". I hope there is more to come.